ergle2
Sep 19, 12:14 PM
so... after reading here for a while i got a question, its kinda stupid, i'm good at that,
first off, i was doubting between the 24" and the macpro so i disided that for my needs i should realy go with a macpro, but know that i'm hearing things about this 8 core macpro, i'm realy doubting about ordering my quad macpro this month,
has anybody got an idea of how long it would be before apple launches " a macpro octo " :confused:
thx for your time :)
It's Apple. No-one has any idea when they'll do anything. :)
It could be as soon as January, could be a lot later -- but I seriously doubt it'd be at the same price as a quad is now. I'd figure on a fairly major premium. It wouldn't surprise me if the OEM price of processors was in the $1200-1500 range alone (current 3.0GHz 5160's are around $900) for a lower clock-speed version.
Which is fastest will very much depend upon how well your specific applications scale -- fewer, faster cores can often bear more slower cores, and scaling isn't linear -- traditional thought on SMP was that the first extra core you add adds 80-90% to the speed (for fully-threaded apps, obv.), the second adds about 60-70%, the third about 40%, and so-on... diminishing returns. This will be more so because each chip has a finite amount of bandwidth that is shared between all the cores -- more cores = more contention for the available bandwidth.
Of course, the Mac Pro CPUs are socketed, so you can always go Octo at a later date if you so choose...
first off, i was doubting between the 24" and the macpro so i disided that for my needs i should realy go with a macpro, but know that i'm hearing things about this 8 core macpro, i'm realy doubting about ordering my quad macpro this month,
has anybody got an idea of how long it would be before apple launches " a macpro octo " :confused:
thx for your time :)
It's Apple. No-one has any idea when they'll do anything. :)
It could be as soon as January, could be a lot later -- but I seriously doubt it'd be at the same price as a quad is now. I'd figure on a fairly major premium. It wouldn't surprise me if the OEM price of processors was in the $1200-1500 range alone (current 3.0GHz 5160's are around $900) for a lower clock-speed version.
Which is fastest will very much depend upon how well your specific applications scale -- fewer, faster cores can often bear more slower cores, and scaling isn't linear -- traditional thought on SMP was that the first extra core you add adds 80-90% to the speed (for fully-threaded apps, obv.), the second adds about 60-70%, the third about 40%, and so-on... diminishing returns. This will be more so because each chip has a finite amount of bandwidth that is shared between all the cores -- more cores = more contention for the available bandwidth.
Of course, the Mac Pro CPUs are socketed, so you can always go Octo at a later date if you so choose...
dscuber9000
Apr 27, 02:57 PM
The birthers have moved on to say that because Obama "doesn't have allegiance to America" or some BS like that, he is now no longer a natural born citizen (http://www.birthers.org/). :rolleyes:
netdog
Aug 11, 10:47 AM
"...Earlier than some may be expecting"??
Wasn't everyone expecting this a year ago?
Using TimeMachine, Steve is going to release it two years ago.
Wasn't everyone expecting this a year ago?
Using TimeMachine, Steve is going to release it two years ago.
Infrared
Apr 11, 07:56 AM
LOL, if you think final cut is from the 90's then Avid Media Composer is from the 50's. It's horrible GUI. I wouldn't learn it, if they paid me big bucks. Well I take that back, I would, but I would hate it. Avid Looks like a POS, the graphics designers at Avid have always been behind though. Look at Protools.
No kidding!
280734
Where's Picasso when you need him? :-)
Avid image was from here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYw4vvr7Aq4
No kidding!
280734
Where's Picasso when you need him? :-)
Avid image was from here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYw4vvr7Aq4
MacBoobsPro
Jul 20, 09:17 AM
I think you're a bit confused, 8x 3GHz cores doesn't equal 1x 24GHz processor.
No I think you are confused. :) I meant "Is having more cores, lets say 8, more efficient than one big core equal in processing power to the 8 cores?"
No I think you are confused. :) I meant "Is having more cores, lets say 8, more efficient than one big core equal in processing power to the 8 cores?"
Digital Skunk
Apr 12, 03:54 PM
Here's what I am hearing:
http://applecritictv.blogspot.com/2011/04/new-final-cut-pro.html
The truly sad part about this is going to be when Apple doesn't deliver on our rumored promises.
I REALLY HOPE that Apple does what that article says, and does it WELL, with no bugs or issues that render the entire system useless, within a price point that's reasonable ($1500 --> $2500 for what's described).
Otherwise, it's going to make whatever update we do get for FCP moot.
http://applecritictv.blogspot.com/2011/04/new-final-cut-pro.html
The truly sad part about this is going to be when Apple doesn't deliver on our rumored promises.
I REALLY HOPE that Apple does what that article says, and does it WELL, with no bugs or issues that render the entire system useless, within a price point that's reasonable ($1500 --> $2500 for what's described).
Otherwise, it's going to make whatever update we do get for FCP moot.
mccldwll
Apr 27, 08:50 AM
No it's not.
And I think MOST people aren't blowing anything out of proportion. Being concerned about tracking information/privacy issues is important. Most people (stop generalizing just because some on this board are) are NOT over-reacting but were calling for deeper investigation into the issue.
Yes, it is. It's hardly tracking if distant towers are also logged. It's a minor issue. Logs need to be deleted after a short period of time. It will be done.
And I think MOST people aren't blowing anything out of proportion. Being concerned about tracking information/privacy issues is important. Most people (stop generalizing just because some on this board are) are NOT over-reacting but were calling for deeper investigation into the issue.
Yes, it is. It's hardly tracking if distant towers are also logged. It's a minor issue. Logs need to be deleted after a short period of time. It will be done.
slackpacker
Apr 10, 07:56 AM
Are you speculating or have you just disobeyed your NDA? ;-)
speculating from what the video showed and a little past history industry knowledge
speculating from what the video showed and a little past history industry knowledge
epitaphic
Aug 18, 09:06 PM
Do you think a Conroe iMac will beat a Mac Pro due to lower memory latency alone? Do you have real experience or data regarding how horrendous a problem this is? Extra dual-core processor aside, the Mac Pro has a higher speed FSB, higher memory bus bandwidth, higher RAM capacity, and ability to set up internal RAID amongst other advantages over a Conroe iMac.
Obviously, inherently the iMac design is inferior to the Mac Pro/Powermac. But I think there's a bigger reason why Apple chose to go all quad with the Mac Pro: Apple chose all quad because a duo option would have had the same performance in professional apps (again, excluding handbrake and toast which are the only two examples touted about). A single processor Woodcrest or Conroe option will have the same obtainable CPU power for 90-95% of the professional market for another 6-12 months at the very least.
Here's some data regarding the Mac Pro's FSB:
the Mac Pro (...) actually takes longer to access main memory than the Core Duo processor in the MacBook Pro. This is much worse than it sounds once you take into account the fact that the MacBook Pro features a 667MHz FSB compared to the 1333MHz FSB (per chip) used in the Mac Pro.
What can we take from this? Because of the use of FB-DIMMs, the Mac Pro's effective FSB is that of ~640MHz DDR2 system.
And how does it fare in memory latency?
It's not Apple's fault, but FB-DIMMs absolutely kill memory latency; even running in quad channel mode, the FB-DIMM equipped Mac Pro takes 45% more time to access memory than our DDR2 equipped test bed at the same memory frequency.
As for bandwidth, although the Mac Pro has a load of theoretical bandwidth, the efficiency is an abysmal 20%. In real use a DDR2 system has 72% more usable bandwidth. (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=11))
I don't know bout you, but if I were a heavy user of memory intensive apps such as Photoshop, I'd be worried. Worried in the sense that a Conroe would be noticeably faster.
Memory issues aside, Woodcrests are faster than Conroes, 2.4% on average (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=6))
Obviously, inherently the iMac design is inferior to the Mac Pro/Powermac. But I think there's a bigger reason why Apple chose to go all quad with the Mac Pro: Apple chose all quad because a duo option would have had the same performance in professional apps (again, excluding handbrake and toast which are the only two examples touted about). A single processor Woodcrest or Conroe option will have the same obtainable CPU power for 90-95% of the professional market for another 6-12 months at the very least.
Here's some data regarding the Mac Pro's FSB:
the Mac Pro (...) actually takes longer to access main memory than the Core Duo processor in the MacBook Pro. This is much worse than it sounds once you take into account the fact that the MacBook Pro features a 667MHz FSB compared to the 1333MHz FSB (per chip) used in the Mac Pro.
What can we take from this? Because of the use of FB-DIMMs, the Mac Pro's effective FSB is that of ~640MHz DDR2 system.
And how does it fare in memory latency?
It's not Apple's fault, but FB-DIMMs absolutely kill memory latency; even running in quad channel mode, the FB-DIMM equipped Mac Pro takes 45% more time to access memory than our DDR2 equipped test bed at the same memory frequency.
As for bandwidth, although the Mac Pro has a load of theoretical bandwidth, the efficiency is an abysmal 20%. In real use a DDR2 system has 72% more usable bandwidth. (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=11))
I don't know bout you, but if I were a heavy user of memory intensive apps such as Photoshop, I'd be worried. Worried in the sense that a Conroe would be noticeably faster.
Memory issues aside, Woodcrests are faster than Conroes, 2.4% on average (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=6))
Tomaz
Aug 7, 07:08 PM
sadly I cant by any more letters to complete a better signature.!
You should at least "by" a "u"... (and maybe an apostrophe) :D
You should at least "by" a "u"... (and maybe an apostrophe) :D
Zadillo
Aug 7, 03:35 PM
anyone else a little underwhelmed with today's WWDC? There isn't anything that really jumped out at me besides the Mac Pro.
I don't know what there is to be underwhelmed about; the rumor has basically been that the main things being covered here would be the Mac Pro (which exceeded my expectations) and the first real glimpse at Leopard (which looks very cool from what I've seen). I didn't find either the Mac Pro or Leopard to be underwhelming, so I don't see anything that would make me feel underwhelmed.
I guess I would be underwhelmed if I had mistaken WWDC for Macworld or something, and expected a bunch of major new product announcements.
I don't know what there is to be underwhelmed about; the rumor has basically been that the main things being covered here would be the Mac Pro (which exceeded my expectations) and the first real glimpse at Leopard (which looks very cool from what I've seen). I didn't find either the Mac Pro or Leopard to be underwhelming, so I don't see anything that would make me feel underwhelmed.
I guess I would be underwhelmed if I had mistaken WWDC for Macworld or something, and expected a bunch of major new product announcements.
wmmk
Jul 14, 06:19 PM
The thing I like least about this rumor is that it specifies only a 320GB harddrive.
The current configs (quad g5) were released in October of last year, in that time harddrive capacities have increased well beyond that (320) small number.
The new machines will get 500GB drives I have to believe.
:confused:
320 would be the standard. you could upgrade to a terabyte if there are still two HDD bays.
The current configs (quad g5) were released in October of last year, in that time harddrive capacities have increased well beyond that (320) small number.
The new machines will get 500GB drives I have to believe.
:confused:
320 would be the standard. you could upgrade to a terabyte if there are still two HDD bays.
cmaier
Apr 19, 10:39 PM
I totally forgot about that! What a joke. Apple has become the king of hypocrites. And they copied the Apple logo from the Beatle's Apple Records.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Apple-Woolworths-logo-lawsuit,8784.html
http://gizmodo.com/#!5374027/deja-vu-apple-sues-someone-because-their-logo-looks-like-fruit
http://www.theage.com.au/business/apple-bites-over-woolworths-logo-20091005-ghzr.html
Even if that were true, so what? Apple Records was not a competitor of Apple Computer. Trademark law allows multiple companies to have the same trademark so long as they don't sell the same type of products in the same location. This is why you can have a 100 companies like "AAA Locksmith, AAA Laundry," etc. Or you can have "Hollywood Video" in Michigan being totally different than "Hollywood Video" everywhere else [interesting story that. I may have the state wrong. Federal registration grants national scope, but pre-existing competition is a problem]
Only truly "famous" marks (e.g. Coke, McDonalds, etc.) which can be "diluted" by use with other types of products are protected against this sort of thing.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Apple-Woolworths-logo-lawsuit,8784.html
http://gizmodo.com/#!5374027/deja-vu-apple-sues-someone-because-their-logo-looks-like-fruit
http://www.theage.com.au/business/apple-bites-over-woolworths-logo-20091005-ghzr.html
Even if that were true, so what? Apple Records was not a competitor of Apple Computer. Trademark law allows multiple companies to have the same trademark so long as they don't sell the same type of products in the same location. This is why you can have a 100 companies like "AAA Locksmith, AAA Laundry," etc. Or you can have "Hollywood Video" in Michigan being totally different than "Hollywood Video" everywhere else [interesting story that. I may have the state wrong. Federal registration grants national scope, but pre-existing competition is a problem]
Only truly "famous" marks (e.g. Coke, McDonalds, etc.) which can be "diluted" by use with other types of products are protected against this sort of thing.
ghostlines
Apr 25, 02:26 PM
Maybe I have a bit of tunnel vision but is simply storing location data of customers on THEIR own machines so wrong? I heard in some comments that this info could be used for caching purposes.
If it's illegal to store location data unknowingly on my own machine then Apple has lost this case already. But I think not. I say prove that Apple did upload and use this location info. Otherwise Apple can simply claim they used it for caching or for a secret location based app they were planning on releasing for people to opt into.(:hint: for Apple's lawyers)
If Apple loses this then I hope lawsuits follow for similar companies that also do such things. When you're on the top people like to bash for the smallest of things.
If it's illegal to store location data unknowingly on my own machine then Apple has lost this case already. But I think not. I say prove that Apple did upload and use this location info. Otherwise Apple can simply claim they used it for caching or for a secret location based app they were planning on releasing for people to opt into.(:hint: for Apple's lawyers)
If Apple loses this then I hope lawsuits follow for similar companies that also do such things. When you're on the top people like to bash for the smallest of things.
McKellar
Sep 19, 02:04 AM
What is wrong with you people? Meroms in other brands of laptops haven't, or are only *just* starting to ship, and you people wail that Apple is doomed, when in the worst case scenario, they'll be a few days behind Dell. If they don't ship by next month, then sure, complain, but really, most of those who moan that Apple is "OMG SO OUTDATED MEROM MBPS SHOULD HAVE BEEN RELEASED 2 MONTHS AGO!!!" are out of touch with reality.
generik
Aug 6, 03:10 AM
No Macbook Pros?? I hope there won't be any. My MBP gets to stay top of the line for few more weeks ;)
This kind of thinking is truly lame, just buy a Dell and go for penis enlargement surgury with the money you saved. No one will know the difference.
This kind of thinking is truly lame, just buy a Dell and go for penis enlargement surgury with the money you saved. No one will know the difference.
Dark K
Jun 19, 03:29 PM
If anyone can answer me this question, it would be most appreciated :D
Does anyone know how many iPhone 4s Radioshack will be getting apart from those that they "reserved"?
Does anyone know how many iPhone 4s Radioshack will be getting apart from those that they "reserved"?
gloss
Sep 19, 06:52 AM
As I is naught en Amerikan canned sumone plz tell mi wen tanksgifting is? :p
British Transport: "Mayday, mayday! Can you hear us? We are sinking! We are sinking!"
German Coast Guard: [pause] "...what are you...tsinking about? (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5210751527160722920&q=what+are+you+thinking+about)"
British Transport: "Mayday, mayday! Can you hear us? We are sinking! We are sinking!"
German Coast Guard: [pause] "...what are you...tsinking about? (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5210751527160722920&q=what+are+you+thinking+about)"
aohus
Apr 19, 02:56 PM
Apple mastered the GUI that Xerox gave it to them.In other words, my mother means much more to me than God.
Apple may have expanded upon existing GUI elements, but it didn't invent the GUI. Very big difference there.
Apple may have expanded upon existing GUI elements, but it didn't invent the GUI. Very big difference there.
gugy
Aug 11, 12:22 PM
Seriously - unlocked phones won't float in the US. The carrier gives huge discounts and most of us don't really care about switching services (a lot people just get all their friends on the same network so all calling is free). I don't care how sweet the iPhone is. I'm not gonna pay 300-400 dollars for a phone when I can get one for 20 or less and stay with the carrier I plan to stay with anyway. Also note that I get a pretty nice company discount with the big guys on my plan and most all of my friends/family are with 1 carrier so it'd really be stupid of me to go with a diff carrier...
I agree with you. Unfortunately the USA cell phone market is sucks.
For me Apple has these options to make the iphone as popular as the ipod.
� offer it to all USA carriers. GSM and CDMA
� offer their own Apple network (hard option, because people would wait to see first if the network is reliable and wait for the end of their current carrier contracts to move to it)
� Make it very affordable to entice people to buy it. Less than $200
I agree with you. Unfortunately the USA cell phone market is sucks.
For me Apple has these options to make the iphone as popular as the ipod.
� offer it to all USA carriers. GSM and CDMA
� offer their own Apple network (hard option, because people would wait to see first if the network is reliable and wait for the end of their current carrier contracts to move to it)
� Make it very affordable to entice people to buy it. Less than $200
DoFoT9
Aug 12, 04:48 AM
Multi-quote madness!!! :eek:
haha thats nothing ;)
haha thats nothing ;)
milo
Jul 20, 04:34 PM
I think Logic can only use two cores/processors with a cludge to use the other two on a quad (by pretending it's a remote machine). Someone told me this though so I'm not 100% on that.
This is true. Logic will use up to about half the available processing power. Using the kludge (which is pretty simple but has some limitations) you can get close to all of it. Which allows for a ton more power than any of the dual G5s.
Still, apple needs to update Logic ASAP to use the full power without a hack. I can't believe it's taken them this long, they BETTER make the fix for all quad machines and not just intel boxes.
I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but Kentsfield will not be appearing in any of the Pro machines for some time.
Apple will be using them exclusively in the Xserves, at for the most part of 2007. This will finally give Apple another way to distinguish their server line from their pro line.
I don't buy that. Apple needs a workstation machine with the fastest available chips. PC's will use them in workstations, it would make no sense to cripple the top of the line desktop machine! Servers are distinguished from the pro line because they have a completely different form factor and feature set, no need to add artificial distincions.
Neither Apple or Dell operate in bubbles. They both realize that these chips belong in real servers and also requires an OS that can support such chips.
You don't think ANY pc makers will ship workstations with kentsfield? Why not? This is a chip that would be perfect for a workstation, you think nobody will take the opportunity to use it? The chips are fast as hell, what makes you think they only belong in servers? Are there features that can only be taken advantage of in a server and not in a workstation?
This is true. Logic will use up to about half the available processing power. Using the kludge (which is pretty simple but has some limitations) you can get close to all of it. Which allows for a ton more power than any of the dual G5s.
Still, apple needs to update Logic ASAP to use the full power without a hack. I can't believe it's taken them this long, they BETTER make the fix for all quad machines and not just intel boxes.
I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but Kentsfield will not be appearing in any of the Pro machines for some time.
Apple will be using them exclusively in the Xserves, at for the most part of 2007. This will finally give Apple another way to distinguish their server line from their pro line.
I don't buy that. Apple needs a workstation machine with the fastest available chips. PC's will use them in workstations, it would make no sense to cripple the top of the line desktop machine! Servers are distinguished from the pro line because they have a completely different form factor and feature set, no need to add artificial distincions.
Neither Apple or Dell operate in bubbles. They both realize that these chips belong in real servers and also requires an OS that can support such chips.
You don't think ANY pc makers will ship workstations with kentsfield? Why not? This is a chip that would be perfect for a workstation, you think nobody will take the opportunity to use it? The chips are fast as hell, what makes you think they only belong in servers? Are there features that can only be taken advantage of in a server and not in a workstation?
milo
Jul 20, 10:12 AM
Anyone else think this is getting out of hand? Two cores, great improvement. Four cores, ehh it's faster but Joe can't tell. Eight cores, now thats just stupid.
No way. It would be stupid for a web surfing machine. But for people who need the power, they're going to absolutely notice when it does things TWICE as fast. I say bring it on (and I'm running a quad and see a *huge* difference).
No way. It would be stupid for a web surfing machine. But for people who need the power, they're going to absolutely notice when it does things TWICE as fast. I say bring it on (and I'm running a quad and see a *huge* difference).
Super Dave
Aug 5, 09:16 PM
Thanks for the links, Dave! I found them both very informative, especially the one on Quartz 2 Extreme.
Do you have any feel for when we will see a roll-out of the pro apps? I recall quite a bit of rumor-mongering just before the Intel announcement. Since then it has been rather silent. I thought the sudden drop in Quake might be a precursor to something fairly soon??
I have no inside information. I just read rumour and news sites� a lot! Although I use the pro Apps for a course I take, I'm not familiar enough with them to know their typical release schedule. For instance, iLife is once a year, whereas Adobe CS products are about every 18 months - 2 years. With Apple's Pro Apps I just don't know. Anyone?
David :cool:
Do you have any feel for when we will see a roll-out of the pro apps? I recall quite a bit of rumor-mongering just before the Intel announcement. Since then it has been rather silent. I thought the sudden drop in Quake might be a precursor to something fairly soon??
I have no inside information. I just read rumour and news sites� a lot! Although I use the pro Apps for a course I take, I'm not familiar enough with them to know their typical release schedule. For instance, iLife is once a year, whereas Adobe CS products are about every 18 months - 2 years. With Apple's Pro Apps I just don't know. Anyone?
David :cool: